In 1994 a listmember whose email address was buffalo@panix.com started posting to ALLMUSIC, singing the praises of certain artists and albums. He also gave out promotional tapes and CDs from some of the artists, which looked a little suspicious. It was subsequently discovered that he was working for the label where those artists recorded. Several of us objected to these sleazy tactics, most notably Jeff Preston. I've included this posting because it gives a wonderful explanation of three of our netiquette rules: no advertising, no lists, and no one-liners. Now, here's Malinda. -- Rev. Bob
Actually, Jeff was objecting to buffalo's sneaky advertising. You see, ALLMUSIC is a listserv. It goes to all the subscribers' mailboxes. It does appear as a newsgroup on some machines (bit.listserv.allmusic) but everything posted here shows up in all the subscribers' mailboxes. There is a FAQ and a set of guidelines for ALLMUSIC. One of those guidelines is ABSOLUTELY NO ADVERTISING. We're tired of being buffalloed, frankly. I'll explain some of the rules in a minute, since they by necessity vary slightly from newsgroup rules. You'll find that he breaks standard netiquette as well, however, by placing an ad in groups that are not set up to permit ads. Just because you get a freebie, it doesn't make it right. I also had a suggestion that would make everyone happy. I'll share that, too, in a second.
The person at the account buffalo@panix.com has used many different handles. Among these: C-man, Mike Corso, Slow Bean, Short Haul, 'jamie munro'. Now just between you and me, using handles isn't the issue. I do this, too. It IS fun. What Jeff--and the 200+ subscribers to ALLMUSIC--happens to object to is that buffalo@panix.com does not reveal either his real name or his affiliation when he pushes a product. This is highly uncool. No one is fooled by it, either. It's okay to play around the net and use cute handles. When you use a handle to harrass, deceive or misrepresent, it may not be 'illegal', but it is certainly unethical. It is my opinion that buffalo@panix.com is using a lot of his handles to misrepresent his affiliation with Atlantic.
When we first tried to talk to buffalo@panix.com, he either did not read or ignored our explanations about what was OK on ALLMUSIC and what wasn't. This isn't a matter of being a net.cop, really. Certain things don't work, and the subscribers who have been around long enough know what doesn't work. ALLMUSIC is a great resource for people who want to discuss music. It is not intended to be a test market for Atlantic records. I was ignored when I tried to explain this to buffalo@panix.com, but I got mail from Atlantic artists--musicians--who were royally pissed off at buffalo@panix.com and considered this a discourteous, rude and sneaky way to advertise against the tenets of netiquette AND the ALLMUSIC guidelines. The musicians expressed concern about how they would be perceived since they belong to a label that would condone--or permit--this type of persistent abuse of ALLMUSIC and this type of rudeness. One musician stated he was going to discuss it with Atlantic himself and told me that he found that this was not a desirable situation for him or his band or Atlantic. You see, we don't plan to support Atlantic as long as buffalo@panix.com continues to abuse the system and advertise sneakily. They lose bucks and credibility. Other labels--like Geffen--are involved with the Net in positive and open ways. It would be MORE okay if he at least was clean about his affiliation. He is not.
Here are a few rules about ALLMUSIC:
Keep one line posts to a minimum--we prefer none.
REASON: If you have only a sentence's worth of information, why post?
Also, the listserv can't handle a large volume of mail. Lots of
one-liners shut the listserv down until a tech can fix it. If someone
like buffalo@panix.com posts five advertisements about Atlantic artists
and posts basically one-line or one-paragraph gushings, this is [a] not
the correct format on ALLMUSIC--this is a place for discussion, not
cheering sections, or gushy fan mail and [b] that is one-tenth of the
mail permitted per day. We set up a backup option for those times when
rude people like buffalo@panix.com ignore requests and pleas and
explanations and refuse to follow the guidelines and shut the listserver
down in an attempt to fill their own agenda (and pockets) at our expense.
No advertising.
REASON: This listserv is an IMPARTIAL place to discuss music. If people
don't contribute anything but ads, it becomes a place to read 50 ads a day.
This is not a marketplace, and we do not exist as a test market for
people like buffalo@panix.com. We make exceptions for people who have
been contributing, posting members for a while, but even they are asked
to flag their promotional posts--which are usually more like, "me and my
band/project/magazine are doing this, just wanted to share" posts.
We don't want lists of stuff you want to sell--go to
rec.music.marketplace and sell there.
No lists.
REASON: A list is not a discussion. It results only in more lists. Lots
of posts full of lists eat up space that should, by the rules, go to
DISCUSSIONS. It's okay to note what you like, but it is not okay to just
list a bunch of names or titles or whatever. If you don't like writing or
debate, ALLMUSIC is NOT for you. This isn't a SOCIAL list, but more of an
educational list. The social connections come as positive but secondary
benefits. If you contribute regularly, you'll get to 'know' other regulars.
We don't sit around slapping palms and listing groups we like and saying
X ROOLZ Y SUX. That is junior-high-level communication. We also don't do
your homework for you, dig up lyrics for you or answer essay questions
for you. It's quite rude to demand that, especially when you realize that
your post goes into 200+ PRIVATE e-mail boxes PLUS is read by
god-knows-how-many lurkers as a newsgroup. If you're secure enough to
formulate an opinion and discuss it, then ALLMUSIC will prove to be
stimulating and interesting. If you are incapable of having a firm
opinion or you can't think of any reason to like a group beyond "they
rule" or "they are cool", please go to a SOCIAL newsgroup. How this ties
in with buffalo@panix.com: he must have posted thirty short little "they
rule" type adverts to ALLMUSIC. He didn't really do much else. That
wastes our time and our money (those of us who pay for e-mail). In
effect, we pay him to type in advertisements. Would you like paying
Burger King so that they can erect a billboard in your front lawn?
The suggestion was made to buffalo@panix.com that he set up a newsgroup exclusively FOR Atlantic. In this newsgroup, he could post his opinions about Atlantic artists, tour schedules, freebies, giveaways, interviews, etcetera. I'd be HAPPY to SEEK OUT his information. I am less than thrilled to see another thinly veiled Atlantic advert, which I pay to read, in ALLMUSIC. You can imagine how thrilled we are to see buffalo@panix.com whine about how mean Jeff Preston was to him. First of all, he was asked POLITELY many, many times to stop spamming us with unwanted adverts. Second, Jeff contributes. He has been an important contributor to the discussions on ALLMUSIC. Third, Jeff follows the rules. It's okay to put personal interests in your .sig. He makes it clear that he promotes Holdsworth every time he posts and he also manages to discuss more than Holdsworth. If buffalo@panix.com modified his .sig to acknowledge that he earns money promoting Atlantic artists, and if he contributed to the discussions on ALLMUSIC, he would not have annoyed anyone at all.
There's been a lot of smoke screening activity from buffalo@panix.com. He has said we're mad about the freebies and want you good folks to be deprived of these. NOT SO. Some of us don't mind the freebies. We do mind the price he exacts for them--in the infamous Torispam, he urged people to post "I LUV TORI" messages in order to get a freebie and many music groups were inundated with hundreds of content-free "I LUV TORI" posts. Do you see what happened? Not only did he post an ad, which YOU had to read and pay for, he also got a lot of other people to post an advert. This is abuse of resources, unethical and rude. Instead of asking that people flood the net with crappy ad posts (sell themselves for a CD), asking for feedback would be beneficial to Atlantic, acceptable policy, and the other people who aren't interested in beinmg spammed with ads aren't. He could easily say "Hey, I flack for Atlantic, if you are interested in previewing this CD by ATLANTIC ARTIST, e-me. All I want is that you give me some feedback for the freebie". Another company using the net POLITELY to get demographics is FOX television. I believe their guy is Charles Kennedy. He tries to follow the FAQs and by doing so, he doesn't alienate the people he wants to get something from. In return, fans of certain FOX TV shows see their input put into action. I understand that there's a model show on FOX, and netters suggested that they add a culturally diverse character to the mix. They apparently did so. X-files staff lurk and read and participate in discussions with fans and it, in my opinion, is a positive symbiotic relationship.
Part of the biggest gripe with buffalo@panix.com is his attitude. He seems to resent any criticism of his actions, even though he is relatively new to the net and could greatly have used some advice and guidance. He ignores netiquette if it doesn't suit his purpose. He resorts to ad hominem attacks to smokescreen what his behavior has been like. If all you hear is, "Gee, I just wanna give the fans some free stuphph, this Jeff guy yelled at me and was mean" then you don't have the whole picture and that's OK. Opinions are going to be different on every subject under the sun. However, the FACT remains that buffalo@panix.com persistently annoys a large segment of people who pay to read and participate in a discussion that has guidelines. He posts ads--without being honest about them--on groups that do not have "marketplace" or "for sale" or "ad" or "wanted" in their names. The most egregious example was his recent post as 'jamie' to alt.abuse.recovery--a newsgroup for people who have been abused in some way. He flacked a Tori Amos album to these people. If I were trying to get support as an abused person, the last thing I want to read is an advert from some scum trying to influence me to by a product by pushing my buttons. I have to give him credit--his followup post identified his affiliation, but too little too late. The insensitivity and rudeness just boggle me.
We've offered to help him with netiquette. We tried to be nice about it. He persisted. (You should note that he doesn't bother to actually SUBSCRIBE to ALLMUSIC--he posts adverts to the newsgroup address only. That's my opinion, since when the listserv is down, I can post to the group and last time it was down he spammed us with adverts. The rudeness--it's okay for us to read his ads, but he can't be bothered to read ALLMUSIC himself and participate.) Jeff cleverly noted a pattern forming. All the gushing one-liners or one-paragraph X ROOLZ posts were all flacking Atlantic artists (with only two exceptions that *I* have seen--Miles Davis and B. Marsalis) and the majority of these gush posts were from good ol' buffalo@panix.com. When posts from this address with a different handle started hawking freebies, it was pretty clear we were being used. It's sneaky and dishonest. Jeff then posted examples, solid evidence, that showed that buffalo@panix.com had NEVER posted any non-Atlantic information EVER. I understand that he denied being anythin more than a fan. More misrepresentation.
You can keep your ads and your freebies. But keep in mind that you're being used, and that the person using you doesn't give a flip about netiquette or the rules or how you might feel about being a lab rat for Atlantic. Keep in mind that Atlantic artists are pissed off about it. Keep in mind that this person does not come clean about who he works for unless pressed to the wall. If you don't mind paying this guy's bills when he shows such disrespect for netiquette and seems to hold the opinion that you are an idiot incapable of realizing he is posting adverts (no matter how many cute nicks and handles he chooses), then I say go for it. When I contribute to *your* newsgroup on a daily basis, *then* I'll have the right to contribute to the bylaws and the FAQ. I don't, so what you put up with in *your* newsgroup is fine by me. But we do not put up with advertising in ALLMUSIC and we don't like having a contributor like Jeff insulted. If buffalo@panix.com was correct about Jeff, I guess we'd have to be quiet about it. He is incorrect and he is smokescreening the real issues by using ad hominem attacks and half truths.
That said, go for the freebies. Do what you think is fair. If you really think it is fair to spam the newsgroup and bother others so YOU can have a free CD and so buffalo@panix.com gets a free ad, well, that's your karma. Just keep it out of newsgroups that have charters prohibiting that sort of nonsense. When your newsgroup is ruined by commercial screwing, then don't come and want to hold your chit-chats here. Protect your future interests and leave ALLMUSIC out of the loop.
Actually, we're usually nicer than this, but this sneaky crap has worked my last nerve. How buffalo@panix.com justifies his blatantly WRONG behavior is beyond me. As long as he keeps it out of groups I belong to and read that prohibit it in the FAQ and in the guidelines, I don't care what he does. It's unethical, but I can live with the knowledge that he's doing it to people who don't care he is doing it to them.
Also, if you are tired of rah-rah posts and you want a more in-depth discussion about music--any kind as long as you back up your topic with DISCUSSION (you know, make a statement, explain it, add some information, pose a premise, don't just post "X ROOLS Y SUX" or "I LUV TORI" or "HELP ME WITH MY PAPER" or any other question that can be covered if you'd just read the damn FAQ in the first place)--then we need and want you. If you're a musician who wants to hang with other technically-minded musicians, we got 'em. If you like an unusual type of music, I bet someone else here does too. Be prepared to be openminded, an active contributor and diverse. Don't post ads, or lyrics, or lists, or UNSUBSCRIBE MEs, or 'do u think michal jacsun is gay?' posts. Don't post long ALL-CAPS sagas. Don't be an ass, basically. If you think you can handle that, big boy, come on. We're actually lots of fun, if a little easily aggravated by numbskulls.
Regards,
Miss M
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is a test of the Emergency Broadband System. This is only a test. If this had been an actual emergency, your local newsgroups and mailing lists --in voluntary co-operation with the EBS and state and local officials-- would have posted many alarmist spams announcing Imminent Death of the Internet. This concludes this test of the Emergency Broadband System. Thank you. mmccall@emory.edu PS: My real name is Malinda McCall and my employer is Emory Eye Center. They probably get just as annoyed at junk mail wasting their time and resources as I do, but I wouldn't presume to speak for them. No sneaky adverts or mystery poster here. I'm just me, mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore. :)
Some folks apparently paid no attention to Malinda's words about no lists. Big mistake. -- Rev. Bob
Are you people deaf or just ignoring us? Your lists are not discussions. ALLMUSIC is for DISCUSSIONS. If you MUST list stuff, at least explain why you like the stuff on your list and acknowledge that others may have varying opinions. If you want fanclub rah-rah, join some listservs devoted to your faves or rah-rah free-for-all newsgroups and have a blast. This is not a rah-rah newsgroup, it is a listserv gateway to the net that happens to look like a newsgroup and smell like a newsgroup, but the rules are different, and under that skirt you see is something entirely different. We're the "Dil" of the Internet.*
Stop posting the goddam lists. I don't want to pay to read them. If you like lists, I'll send you ten lists a day about my favorite foods, my favorite colors, my favorite paintings, my favorite types of wild animal, my favorite pastas, etc. I'm sure you'll find them fascinating. In the meantime, DISCUSS!! DISCUSS!! DISCUSS!! Think "Coffee Talk". You get a topic in mind, grab it and run with it. A TOPIC != (does not equal) a LIST.
Don't post one liners.
We don't want gossip, we don't want to be your reference librarians (I don't get paid enough to put up with the dumb or difficult questions I get at work, why should I answer yours when you have obviously not bothered to try and answer it yourself?), we don't want advertisements (more on that later, and if you think I'm annoyed here, just wait) and we don't want to answer questions that are in the FAQ or the instructions ALREADY. PLEASE have some courtesy. Lurk a while to see if you want to stay. Learn the rules.
Apply one of these analogies: [a] cocktail party or [b] foreign country. If [a], then do not barge in and demand that we discuss what YOU want. We're not a game. This is real people you're looking at. We have feelings and we don't like it when you demand that we entertain or educate you. "Ask not what ALLMUSIC can do for you...". Listen to some conversations and pick the group of folks you feel most comfortable with and join in. If [b], learn our language or we'll take advantage of you and laugh at you behind your back. We were here before you were, and our customs are different. Just as you wouldn't (I hope) go to France and bitch about how everyone eats roughly at the same time, or how the French dress, or how their laws work, you shouldn't try and impose your preferences and customs on US.
There's always option [c]: stay around long enough to become a cranky old timer. Then *you* can help enforce and maintain the rules, all of which will have proven to be enforced for a reason, and a good reason at that.
Welcome to the newbies who were polite enough to read the instructions and play nice. A big raspberry to those of you who just don't understand yet.
Regards,
Miss M
-- *Crying Game reference
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* Do not pick flowers, cut trees, set fires, or *
* otherwise destroy the environment for no good reason. *
* Learn conservation and live in harmony with nature *
* instead of disturbing it. --Ni, Hua-Ching *
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mmccall@emory.edu